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  1. I wonder if Jesus saw cost to benefit ratios when he called poor fishermen to work His cause.

    http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/Learn/us_hunger_facts.htm

    14% of US population in 1968 28 million
    14% of population in 2010 43 million
    children are 25 % of our population but 35% of the poor – about 15 million.

    I am wondering which entitlements you think we should start with. Aid to dependent children. Special education (which is much more of a school program in inner city poverty areas). WIC – which is childhood nutrition and pregnant mothers. Food Stamps- which is now credit cards and can no longer be "sold". Public schools. Medicaid. (At least medicare people have contributed to for 30 years in order to benefit fully).

    Truly, I will have never used any of these programs. It will not affect of effect my well being. Can YOUR parish take up the slack of YOUR neighborhood?

  2. Good work, Elena.

    JBO: The root of Jesus' instruction to assist the poor comes from personal caring. The government doesn't care about anybody. As a result, please consider the risky wisdom of giving the government the role in society that Jesus saw as a defining mark of His people.

    The government does not do charity more effectively than private organizations and people. But it's a great way to marginalize the role of religion in public life.

  3. Thanks Bryan. I can't add much more to your comment.

    I will say though that it's time to look at some of these programs very critically and cut the ones that just aren't effective and meeting their goals.

  4. Which ones- that is the ultimate question. Again- is YOUR parish ready to care for YOUR neighborhood?

    I don't know where you live Bryan- but in the United States the government IS the people. We are a representative republic.

  5. I don't know which ones Janette. I think each program would have to stand or fall on its own merits. And actually I think the parishes around me are already doing a great job of helping on the hunger front.

    Yes, we are a representative republic. That's what the mid term elections and the Republican sweep were all about.

  6. Oh and Janette – where is the documentation I have been asking for?

  7. The government is the people applies about like the church is the people. We both know that in real life most churches have a small handful that do most of the work while the bulk fill the pews on the day or worship and little more. It's the same with government. There is a professional class (typically unionized) that is employed to perform the duties of government, including ministering to the poor. And you'll find in rare that the ACLU will allow a government worker to give a person food or drink in Jesus' name.

    Many in the 21st century church appear ready to repeat the error of Pietism from the beginning of the 20th century. Don't confuse government-provided assistance with spiritual charity until the head of the government is the Lord himself. And my advice is to discourage the government from squeezing the church out of doing one of its most effective tools of witness.

  8. I'm not looking up any documentation for you El. You are the minutia person- I gave you the links to the encyclicals. I listen to my conservative pastor and he says the same thing as your pastor. He is the one that gave the social encyclical links. Have you asked your Bishop— or a very conservative Bishop—on his stand about safety nets? Not those people on TV who are selling you stuff- actual working Bishops with a flock.

    Again- I have no problem with most- if not all of these programs being cut. Flat tax. 10% Spending in the only places that the government is supposed to spend- national defense and inter state commerce.

    My family is safe. Those who are in financial trouble are either covered by wealthy relatives or members of the LDS church. Almost everyone has downsized properly. My grandson is well. It will be easy to homeschool him and any other children God grants my two children. We are both healthy. Your parents are dead and my mother has plenty- and is well insured. My son and son in law both have excellent skill sets- and if worse comes to worse- we have plenty of land that has been fallow in the heartland (and my son in law's family has a large farm-which he will inherit). Your family has land by the shore of a lake.

    I am slowly learning that the stance of the conservative Catholics is "let it roll". I don't understand it–but it works for me- financially. Just go to church- receive Communion and then do whatever feels good for my family as long as I don't break the actual commandments. Got it. Sort of the Pharisees thing—forget the guy on the side of the road when it comes to federal dollars. he doesn't deserve it- he can figure out which closed Catholic hospital he can get help in.

  9. You're not looking it up because you already know that you will not find anything to hold against me. There is nothing in Catholicism that states that I must believe that government is the best solution, the most effective solution and basically the only solution to helping the poor. Therefore, I am perfectly free to look at the results in the US over the last 50 years and question whether all of the time and money poored into it was the best use of our talents and treasure.

    Therefore Janette, unless you care to find something that says otherwise you can refrain from further ad hominen attacks in that regard or risk having them removed.

    The conservative Catholic stance as I understand it is that we have very limited resources and we have to become the best stewards possible of those resources. I have never heard a bishop or a pastor say "just do what feels good for your family" ever. In fact we are encouraged to reach out and help. But that's not the same thing as unchecked taxation to grow more government bureaucracy.

    And about that guy on the side of the road – don't assume that he has never been given a handout or a hand up. We also have freedom in this country.

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