Hell

A while ago I had a discussion here with a commenter about hell, and whether or not there was actually anyone in hell.

The gist of my argument was we can’t know for certain regarding each individual whether they are in heaven, purgatory or hell. (Although I think you can take an educated guess!) What do we know for certain? We know that we have free will. We know that some individuals choose evil, some goodness. I don’t have any reason to believe that that choice is taken away atthe time of death.

I had another discussion about the existence of hell and its populace here.

Interestingly, two examples that supported my point popped up for me this week.

The first is from the “Et Tu Jen” blog by her anonymous commenter (NMH for regular readers)

Either God is good, or there is no God. I can’t believe in a God I can’t respect, and a God that would penalize people by eternally damning them for not believing in one set of stories, even if they’re essentially better people than the “believers”, is not a God I want any truck with.

I seriously would choose hell over that, because it would be hell to part of that. There isn’t a personal reward you could dangle in front of me to be party to randomly and wantonly damning innocent people for matters out of their control.

The other was Stephen Colbert’s interview with Deepak Chopra this week. Here is the part that interested me:

Chopra: Hell costs a little more becaue it is more interesting. If you are in heaven you would be doomed to eternal senility.

Colbert: So you agree with David Burn that heavben is a place where nothing ever happens.

Chopra: Yea, because there is no creative impulse in the absence of discontent. You need divine discontent in order to create.

So there ya go! Hell can’t be empty because not everyone wants to be in heaven!

********
Followup:
By popular demand, I will address specific objections to my points about the doctrine of hell. See comment section here.

I also just want to add that I’ve known people — Catholics — big, huge, loudmouth Catholics — who claim utterly and absolutely that there are definitely people in hell, that the Church teaches there are people in hell right this minute, and that they know without a shadow of a doubt that people are in hell right now.
Frankly, if I ever met an actual Catholic who was even mildly acquainted with what the Church teaches, I’d probably fall over in shock, but that’s beside the point.

As I am not a theologian as a lay Catholic I depend a lot on the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the sure norm.

This is what the CCC has to say on the subject:

633 Scripture calls the abode of the dead, to which the dead Christ went down, “hell” – Sheol in Hebrew or Hades in Greek – because those who are there are deprived of the vision of God.480 Such is the case for all the dead, whether evil or righteous, while they await the Redeemer: which does not mean that their lot is identical, as Jesus shows through the parable of the poor man Lazarus who was received into “Abraham’s bosom”:481 “It is precisely these holy souls, who awaited their Savior in Abraham’s bosom, whom Christ the Lord delivered when he descended into hell.”482 Jesus did not descend into hell to deliver the damned, nor to destroy the hell of damnation, but to free the just who had gone before him.483

IV. HELL

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.”612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he “will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,”615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: “Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!”616

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.”617 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.”618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth.”619

1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

The point is that this is the picture of God THEY are painting. A God who allows other humans to judge and condemn, a God who creates people with the knowledge that he will damn them for no logical reason, a God who threatens and a God who sort of gets off on the knowledge that there are people in hell.

I think it’s pretty clear from the catechism that God creates people for heaven. But he doesn’t force us to go there. Where we end up is a choice of our own free will, freely offered and freely accepted or rejected. This is supported in the doctrines and in the scriptures.

Now, I’m pretty sure the Church still teaches that we cannot claim with any certainty that anyone is in hell,

I think the church does not teach that and apologist Dave Armstrong agrees with that assessment.

and that we are absolutely not to sit around, as humans, and point to this person or that person and guess which one is going to end up in hell. Last time I checked, that was considered a pretty serious sin, actually. But never tell one of those know-it-all, holier-than-thous what the Church actually teaches. Their heads might explode. And given the size of some of their heads, that would be a very bad thing for anyone living within a 50 mile radius.

Well that’s fine but it’s not scriptural.

I’m goin’ with the God who doesn’t condemn innocents.

So does the church. The catechism was pretty clear on why someone ends up condemned and it is free choice.

Skipping on to another point that interests me:

Any person who delights in the knowledge that others are in hell, or, worse, who, on some sick, demented level, needs for there to be people in hell in order to feel all special and shit, is a seriously evil, sick, disturbed person. Seriously. Totally insane. On a level I don’t think it’s humanly possible to diagnose.

I delight in justice.

679 Christ is Lord of eternal life. Full right to pass definitive judgment on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He “acquired” this right by his cross. The Father has given “all judgment to the Son”.587 Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself.588 By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one’s works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love.589

IN BRIEF

680 Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. The triumph of Christ’s kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil.

681 On Judgment Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history.

682 When he comes at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, the glorious Christ will reveal the secret disposition of hearts and will render to each man according to his works, and according to his acceptance or refusal of grace.

Lastly, I have heard the argument that John Paull II said that no body is in hell. He did not. His exact words were:

4. Christian faith teaches that in taking the risk of saying “yes” or “no”, which marks the human creature’s freedom, some have already said no. They are the spiritual creatures that rebelled against God’s love and are called demons (cf. Fourth Lateran Council, DS 800-801). What happened to them is a warning to us: it is a continuous call to avoid the tragedy which leads to sin and to conform our life to that of Jesus who lived his life with a “yes” to God.

Eternal damnation remains a real possibility, but we are not granted, without special divine revelation, the knowledge of whether or which human beings are effectively involved in it. The thought of hell — and even less the improper use of biblical images — must not create anxiety or despair, but is a necessary and healthy reminder of freedom within the proclamation that the risen Jesus has conquered Satan, giving us the Spirit of God who makes us cry “Abba, Father!” (Rm 8:15; Gal 4:6).

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